Health Care

[K. Swartz 1st MRB]

Yes or No. ????????????????????

[Parker 1st MRB]

What if you already have government healthcare? Should I be included here? Why am I here? What is going on?

Seriously, you guys make to big a deal out of social healthcare. If you're gonna talk politics with me, all I ask is that you have your own opinions on the matter and not the opinions of Fox or CNN.

Also, don't start to flame social healthcare because a.) I have it and b.) it's one thing to say why you don't want it and another to just totally bash it and say fuck those who use it (like some dumb redneck would do, are you a redneck?)

[Vogt]

No. As it may be beneficial for others countries which practice this, I simply feel as though this will not work for America. The reason being, is because I feel as though the quality of care and treatment at hospitals will decline. You know this could possibly happen especially when doctors themselves say it. I know what you're going to say, "Of course they'll say that, they won't be getting payed by patients anymore." You have to ask yourselves though, not all people having a caring heart, and for those who don't do you really think they're going to give two shits less about your life and it being saved? I also don't know of any hospitals that are stimulated by the government. The only ones I know are stimulated by the money of insurance companies and and their patients. Our economy is also to far in the shitter to be doing this, we had to give stimulus packages to our banks and other fat cat businesses like insurance companies so they wouldn't go under. So you have to ask yourself, can American insurance companies and banks really afford to shoulder paying full price for American's hospital bills? Well if you're an American who knows how hard it is today in our economy, or how hard it is to even find a job let alone maintain one, then you know the answer is simply a no.

"My 2 Lincolns." - Ford

[Marsden 1st MRB]

Well personally I would like Government Health care, and I was already Denied for the current version of it because and I quote. "You are a full time student in college making less than 500 dollars a week". Well to be perfectly honest if i was making 2000 a month i wouldn't fucking be applying for Welfare/Medicare. However, the timing of this Social Health care is not a good idea in my opinion. The one legit aspect that the Conservatives could throw out there, they don't. The fact that our government is TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN DEBT means that if the private sector can't afford to provide health care for itself how the FUCK is the government supposed to do it? Despite the recession we are in, the owners and higher level execs of the world wide corporations and the like have been making record profits in the last 4 years while the lower-upper class and the middle and the lower steadily die off. It just happens that the lower-upper class started to notice that they were getting the shaft and tried to sell there stocks so that they could keep some of there profits (although by my standards they don't need any fucking profits). The only problem is that the higher execs weren't gonna buy because they knew/planned the downhill trend to instill panic to help people become more dependent on them, and the middle class won't usually buy stocks because most of them don't trust the stock market, and the of course the lower class can't afford to buy stocks and most of us are conspiracy theorists in some form or another. If the government were to try and get this bill passed in a few years once the economy has re-stabilized itself again (if it does) then I would fully support it fully and without a moments hesitation due to the fact that my family has never been able to afford non-government health care and so i know how bad it sucks when you don't have medical insurance because every so often Medicare decides to "review your case" and that just means that they don't feel like paying for 3-4 months. This bill in a better economic climate would be a wonderful idea, and of course the fucking private sector is going to bitch about it and say that it's the first step towards communism. I personally have 3 words for them:

"The Velvet Revolution."

well thank you for reading my naive 19 year old opinion on the current political and economic climate as it relates to the health care bill.

[K. Swartz 1st MRB]

Not about FOX or CNN, it about changing the whole U.S. heath care system. Most Americans are happy with there health care. Why change the whole system for 15 Mill. ppl.>>>> +1 Trillion dollars for the 15 Million ppl who want heath care, BUT DONT PAY TAXES.

Not to mention AMERICA IS BROKE.

Sorry Not about the Canadians Heath care system Parker, Its about our government wanting more power.

Hate me if you want , FREEDOM!!!!

K. Swartz, American!!!

[Marsden 1st MRB]

lol swartz thats valid toward me personally, due to the fact that i don't have a job and have never had an income to speak of so no i haven't paid taxes, because i don't have any that apply to my wopping $200-300 income from 2009. however will admit that there are a shit load of people who don't pay there taxes and it just fucks us all over in the end anyhow, i dont see the point of it.

as far as our government wanting more control, i personally don't know how that could work when my mother, with her Medical Marijuana card can still be arrested by federal officers while protected by state law. I mean all that it would do is help regulate whether or not people are having treatments done that have been tested and proven to be safer, o and maybe, just maybe, have people be more interested in finding less expensive ways of treating things seeming as to how the medical board and congress aren't getting their pockets lined by charging up the ass for medical. my mom's a phlebotomist and doctors offices charge usually over a hundred dollars for her to walk in and stick you in your arm, take the blood back into their own lab and run it through their machine to test it, and then charge you exponentially more if they have to send it out. so im pretty sure that is a bit of a rip off when my mom only make 13$ an hour (if she stays there for another year she'll get a raise to 19-20). i get side tracked easy lol

if you could explain why you feel that way i'd appreciate it so that way i can stop sounding as ignorant as i think i do right now.

[Zachow 1st MRB]

I'm a diabetic which is very hard to get insurance for. I will also be going into the health care field. The plan that Obama wants to put into place will reduce the quality of our health care. The people who need this program the most are the ones who try to scam the system and don't really work. I know this because I have seen and know the people who are for this program.

[K. Swartz 1st MRB]

Marsden,

If you understood the constitution, and the way it is meant to be. You would know that the States are suppose to have more power than the Federal Gov. The Federal Gov, is only meant to protect our freedom, not rule our lives. Not what can me country do for me, But what can I do for MY COUNTRY!!

[Gooderham 1st MRB]

I think that public health care is one of the single most important pieces of Canadian Law. I have two younger sisters, both of whom are disabled, and I assure you, there is no way financially my family would be able to survive without public healthcare. I believe that public healthcare has ensured that all Canadians have both something to be proud of and something to help them in the toughest of times. I do not believe that the quality of care will deteriorate with a public system, but instead would ensure an equal level of care countrywide. Public healthcare will not create more debt for the federal system, but a calculated raise in taxes would cover the entire cost. Finally, I believe that the old institutions that required the stimulus packages only needed them as a result of there complacency in earning off the income of the working class.

I believe that as a member of society, one must show compassion to all of humanity. To be an accepted member of society, one must be willing to accept responsibility for those less fortunate than you. Public healthcare is not more for one and less for another, but instead an equal quality for all. A true civilization is one that takes care of all its people.

[Marsden 1st MRB]

Gooderham that was well spoken but scares me as an american to be honest lol.

K. Swartz 1st MRB Posted Today, 10:02 PM

Marsden,

If you understood the constitution, and the way it is meant to be. You would know that the States are suppose to have more power than the Federal Gov. The Federal Gov, is only meant to protect our freedom, not rule our lives. Not what can me country do for me, But what can I do for MY COUNTRY!!

as far as that goes i understand that, but would government health care not protect our right to proper medical aid? I am not asking what the United States of America can do for me, because honestly I want nothing from her than the rights that are guaranteed me in the constitution, and my point about the medical marijuana thing was that the federal government has already overstepped its bounds, and has for some time by superseding state laws in Regan's "war on drugs" I do not support drug abuse, but i think that if a state has a law saying that heroin is legal there, well fuck i guess heroin is legal there u know? I attempted to offer up my life for my country and was stereotyped and then promptly led about by the nose until i "gave up." All I honestly want to do in my life is serve a career in the United States Marine Corps, I am not talking about a tour of Duty but 30 years of service until my mandatory retirement happens, and then if i get recalled well then i would be stoked you know why? because i love MY COUNTRY above my own life or what my family or significant other may end up thinking of me, it may sound callous but that's how i am, i dont even know where it came from, my mothers a liberal lol. Sorry if that came off as kinda flameish.

so basically it really comes down to with all the arguments about the health care bill as to the original issue our country had, how much power do the feds get. personally i see it as a protection of my right to be healthy but i can also see where it could feel like an encroachment on the part of the Federal Government.

[GMoney BAR]

as far as that goes i understand that, but would government health care not protect our right to proper medical aid?

Read the constitution. Nobody in this country has the right to proper medical aid. Most people take things for granted anymore. They live in this American "safe and happy" bubble. Most Americans are so out of touch of what real life is actually about. It's happened over time with a slow but steady degrading system arguably starting in the 60s. People just want too many things given to them and not have to work for anything anymore.

This healthcare bill will give the government an insane amount of control over all American people. I have a class now and we studied the current healthcare bill being debated on capital hill. While this bill will cover people for serious diseases, such as cancer or diabetes, it wont cover what most people need health insurance for. The bill will not cover people who need coverage for mental illnesses: this includes things from psychopathy to depression to ADD/ADHD. It also will not cover people who need it for dental, vision, hearing, physical therapy, or other "not life supporting ailments. Another little FYI is they were thinking of making a fat tax too. Basically if you're obese then you get a nice heavy little tax added to your taxes come April every year. Haven't heard though if this has been approved or not though so don't quote me on it.

90% of people do not understand how much of a "CHANGE" this will be for the worse. They hear free healthcare and say oh sweet. Congress and the President himself do not care about their constituents anymore. This healthcare bill is all about an extreme left liberal agenda. If you think otherwise then go google Congress's approval rating. Last I saw it was at 18%. This is all about the extreme left liberals trying to make "history" and force this down the American people's throat. If you don't believe me then youtube video clips from Obama, Pelosi, Reid, Gibbs, etc. about the healthcare reform and see how many times they mention how it will make history. Hell in the past week I can think of 4 different instances alone.

[Gooderham 1st MRB]

90% of people do not understand how much of a "CHANGE" this will be for the worse. They hear free healthcare and say oh sweet. Congress and the President himself do not care about their constituents anymore. This healthcare bill is all about an extreme left liberal agenda. If you think otherwise then go google Congress's approval rating. Last I saw it was at 18%. This is all about the extreme left liberals trying to make "history" and force this down the American people's throat. If you don't believe me then youtube video clips from Obama, Pelosi, Reid, Gibbs, etc. about the healthcare reform and see how many times they mention how it will make history. Hell in the past week I can think of 4 different instances alone.

It is NOT free healthcare. People pay taxes to fund public healthcare, it doesn't just appear. Additionally, this "extreme left liberal" conspiracy is ridiculous. The Canadian Conservative Party still supports public healthcare and they are most definitely NOT an "extreme left liberal" party.

[GMoney BAR]

It is NOT free healthcare. People pay taxes to fund public healthcare, it doesn't just appear. Additionally, this "extreme left liberal" conspiracy is ridiculous. The Canadian Conservative Party still supports public healthcare and they are most definitely NOT an "extreme left liberal" party.

yeah the free healthcare was about how a lot of people think in America. It shows how retarded and blind sided they are to the topic at hand. As for the Canadian Conservative Party supporting government run healthcare... that's fine and dandy but Canada is still more liberal than America, and Conservatives in the U.S. want nothing to do with government run healthcare. The conservative to liberal continuum is much different in Canada and America so please lets keep it here to the American standard since the topic is American government run healthcare.

Edited March 20, 2010 by GMoney ßÄR

[Gooderham 1st MRB]

That may be true GMoney, except I would like to suggest that the continuum is far larger than the differences between the two American parties as both still fall well inside the conservative definition.

[Marsden 1st MRB]

Well then, i didn't know that this public health care deal was going to basically have me still fucked over, so fuck it, thanks money lol. iv been reading up on it anyhow and ya its not as good as the obama administration want it to appear.

and sadly enough it seems that most of america, left wingers as well as right have forgotten the keystone of our nation:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness.

Thomas Jefferson, July of 1776.

I am not saying that a revolution is necessary just that people need to remember that over all we have control over who it is in our government and that we still have the right to petition even the Congress or Supreme Court for the removal of certain people within the government or even for a full re-election excluding all current office holders in the federal government. as money said it would take an awful amount of work to gather the necessary signatures but if enough people got of their apathetic asses maybe it would happen. o an of course there is still the possibility that the government is far enough gone that all involved would be thrown into prison for treason, however i personally hope that the morals that our beautiful country was built upon haven't been so far eroded that something like that would happen.

[Gooderham 1st MRB]

The very first word in that passage Marsden is "life," which would imply that everyone is entitled to live, and therefore, medical care and attention.

As far as I see it, if Americans don't want public healthcare then they don't want it, but do not tell me that Canadian public healthcare is bad and that this is just an example of the government trying to control you or other 'conspiracy' theories.

[Englebretson 1st MRB]

Last I saw it was at 18%.

lol so true regardless whos president wooo

[Marsden 1st MRB]

i dont think anyone said that it was bad or a conspiricy that the canadians have public health care. just un-american, and i know life is the first one hence why my argument is that should the government not help to provide for our right to be healthy, but the current bill only helps keep you from dying not to be healthy.

[GMoney BAR]

The very first word in that passage Marsden is "life," which would imply that everyone is entitled to live, and therefore, medical care and attention.

As far as I see it, if Americans don't want public healthcare then they don't want it, but do not tell me that Canadian public healthcare is bad and that this is just an example of the government trying to control you or other 'conspiracy' theories.

The life in that context is not understood as healthcare life. The healthcare bill is constitutional; it's called government control. The life in that context, attributed and supplemented by the remainder of the sentence, means that everyone does have a right to equal life. How healthy their lifestyle they have or how healthy their body is, that is totally up to the American public. You can go into the hospital and say you need treatment, before the passage of this bill, and you will get treatment without medical coverage. This was allowed by the constitution and the debate over cruel and unusual punishment. That's fine and dandy. That's how it was before the passage of this bill. What this bill does is forces people to have health insurance at all times. Health insurance that will not cover anything that you may need done: see the post above for examples.

As for the Canadian healthcare, that's their own business. I never once said that the Canadian healthcare was bad. If anyone has a reasonable explanation on why only 41% of America was in favor of this healthcare bill and it was still passed, then please explain it because that will be the million dollar answer (Rassmussen Poll as of 21 march, 2010). The democrats favor more federal government control and the conservatives favor more state sovereignty. With the passage of this bill and only a 38% approval rating to Americans it is apparently clear with empirical evidence that it is a political agenda push to "make history" for the Obama administration, Pelosi, Reid, and company. In fact they have been bold enough to even say "the American people have no idea how much this will benefit them..." In other words they want to call their own constituents dumb and not know what is best for themselves and future generations? So please anyone please explain to me how in the world a 41% approval rating of a bill is what is good for the nation.

It makes me so proud that America has so many people in Congress that don't care to hear what their constituents have to say at all. By passing this bill and forcing it upon 300 million people when it may only help 10% of the total population is wrong. In fact it is so wrong and overstepping the boundary of state sovereignty that there are already 36 of the 50 states prepared to fight this healthcare bill because it infringes on the right of the states to have a sovereign system other than the government. Obama did not care about the majority of the people. He did this as a means to an end. What is that end? His name in history. Just a theory of mine but someone please prove me wrong with hard facts about a man that still cannot even turn up a valid U.S. citizenship birth certificate.

[Greco]

The life in that context is not understood as healthcare life. The healthcare bill is constitutional; it's called government control. The life in that context, attributed and supplemented by the remainder of the sentence, means that everyone does have a right to equal life. How healthy their lifestyle they have or how healthy their body is, that is totally up to the American public. You can go into the hospital and say you need treatment, before the passage of this bill, and you will get treatment without medical coverage. This was allowed by the constitution and the debate over cruel and unusual punishment. That's fine and dandy. That's how it was before the passage of this bill. What this bill does is forces people to have health insurance at all times. Health insurance that will not cover anything that you may need done: see the post above for examples.

As for the Canadian healthcare, that's their own business. I never once said that the Canadian healthcare was bad. If anyone has a reasonable explanation on why only 41% of America was in favor of this healthcare bill and it was still passed, then please explain it because that will be the million dollar answer (Rassmussen Poll as of 21 march, 2010). The democrats favor more federal government control and the conservatives favor more state sovereignty. With the passage of this bill and only a 38% approval rating to Americans it is apparently clear with empirical evidence that it is a political agenda push to "make history" for the Obama administration, Pelosi, Reid, and company. In fact they have been bold enough to even say "the American people have no idea how much this will benefit them..." In other words they want to call their own constituents dumb and not know what is best for themselves and future generations? So please anyone please explain to me how in the world a 41% approval rating of a bill is what is good for the nation.

It makes me so proud that America has so many people in Congress that don't care to hear what their constituents have to say at all. By passing this bill and forcing it upon 300 million people when it may only help 10% of the total population is wrong. In fact it is so wrong and overstepping the boundary of state sovereignty that there are already 36 of the 50 states prepared to fight this healthcare bill because it infringes on the right of the states to have a sovereign system other than the government. Obama did not care about the majority of the people. He did this as a means to an end. What is that end? His name in history. Just a theory of mine but someone please prove me wrong with hard facts about a man that still cannot even turn up a valid U.S. citizenship birth certificate.

yea the health care bill is just utter bullshit. When I heard it had passed I was wondering what in the hell happened to cause that? Honestly anything that once made this country better and different than all the others is slowly fading away....Obama bin ladin has done nothing he promised to dearly to do during the election.

[I have no arms BAR]

This is why they pushed the bill through. Very insightful.

Clicky for article

[GMoney BAR]

Not a bad article, but only proves my point.

"Because it's worth it. Big time. I've been saying in this space for two years that the governmentalization of health care is the fastest way to a permanent left-of-center political culture. It redefines the relationship between the citizen and the state in fundamental ways that make limited government all but impossible."

An excerpt pulled from the article. That there alone points out that it was nothing but pure agenda. No regard for the American people and what they think. It's extreme liberals doing what they do best: trying to get as much power as possible. Notice I did not say liberals in general. Also, it's a pretty biased article. Anything from a fairly non-biased article? This little idea is something that any knowledgeable person calls Socialism. It's screwed up they didn't listen to the people and forced this thing down our throats. REPUBLICAN REVOLUTION IN NOVEMBER!!!!!!! It's coming. Mark my words.

Edited March 22, 2010 by GMoney ßÄR

[I have no arms BAR]

That and I'm fairly sure that it's a violation of the Fifth Amendment to force people to pay for a government program and fine them if they don't comply...i foresee some lawsuits in the near future.

Sad that this is the first time Congress has voted directly against public opinion. We're electing you WHY again?

[Englebretson 1st MRB]

this is my idea of healthcare. if your are super sick use this and if you are gmoney use this. and dont forget both parties always have tons of their own stupid expensive projects that are and always will be retarded.

[K. Swartz 1st MRB]

Well, SHIT!!!!!!!!!

We will see what happens, this piece of legislation is going to have to pass a lot of law suit. Currently 38 state are looking into violations of the 10th and 11th amendments.

Lets just cross our fingers.